Thoughts on SciFi

[rurounihime]

It's kind of funny to watch the progression of a genre. I recently purchased the entire run of Space: Above and Beyond, a series I loved up until it was cancelled - rather unexpectedly in my opinion - and of course, afterwards as well. Looking back on it now, I can see so many inspirations in it for space-based shows that came after, and it's just neat to track the genre as it develops on television.

The most ground-breaking series in the genre, in my opinion, are:

~Star Trek, of course. No way that can be denied.
~Space: Above and Beyond. Definitely a new take, not on the distant future, but on the more immediate future, which is not often attempted in the genre.
~Firefly. I mean, who else could ever come up with a space-western? It's wonderful. (And the interesting thing is, watching S:A&B, I would be willing to bet money that Whedon watched it too.)

I don't watch Battlestar Galactica, but I have a feeling that it's also making a lot of headway, from what I've heard.

Some honourable mentions:
~Stargate SG-1: by virtue of its fascinating blend of faith and science;
~Farscape: took the idea of Star Trek and just flipped it on its head, beat the crud out of it, and popped off scintillating jokes all the while... with puppets;
~LEXX: talk about your weird. Definitely worth a watch just for the utter kink.

And then of course, there's Futurama. *grins*

So I am wondering, what is your take on this genre, f-list?

Comments

[ravenna-c-tan.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree!

Another one: I think Babylon 5 helped prove to the powers that be that a sci fi show didnt' have to follwo the Star Trek formula of always returning everything ot the status quo every episode. By building on a long arc of story, such that every episode didn't stand alone, they broke a lot of the "rules" of genre television. Nowadays, of course, plenty of shows do that, but at the time it was revolutionary.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Ohhhhh my god! How could I forget to mention B5?? I didn't watch it, but I know you are right and that it paved new inroads for the genre. And it's neat to find out that it may have been the pioneer of the continuing plot arc storyline. That shows up a lot in series now: Firefly and S:A&B, to name only two...

Excellent comment, love. Thanks for reminding me.

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

yay for battlestar galactica!!!

[ravenna-c-tan.livejournal.com]

No problem! If you ever get a chance to borrow the DVDs of it, it's worth a look, though I felt the story suffered from the way the vagaries of television jerked them around (would there be a next season?> yes, no, yes! okay, but since we thought there wouldn't be a new season, this actress already left for another job, so we have to either kill off her character or something... um.... that kind of stuff). It's interesting because in the first season there are a few episodes that are Star Trek style, stand alone episodes, but they clearly did that to appease the powers that be and by the second season that pretty much gets left behind.

[hoshiforever.livejournal.com]

...I call myself a cautious sci-fi fan....b/c I only like the really quality stuff. Star Trek...I like TNG and Enterprise and only the good ones from the Original (just...too 60s for me). Firefly is amazing (though the movies sucked).

And then there's stargate....I'm a stargate JUNKIE. It's my favorite TV show...ever (Both SG-1 and SGA). I love how it's Sci-fi-y but you don't have to know/like sci-fi to like it and how "the best kept secret of stargate is that it's really a comedy" (as said by one of the producers) and...yesh.....I love it...

::points to Icon::

</ ramble>

[hoshiforever.livejournal.com]

oh and I hate Battlestar with a firely, burning passion...but that's another matter all together...::nod::

[rubymiene.livejournal.com]

Absolutely love BSG, and I think it's very different than any other scifi series in how gritty it is, the way the scenes are edited, and it's hard-hitting commentary on current events. I think it's a breakthrough not just for scifi, but for television in general.

[rubymiene.livejournal.com]

Also love SG1 and SGA. Like hoshiforever said, they're *funny*. There's so many great one-liners, and the 200th eps was 100% toast to the fans. I didn't even get all of the inside jokes, there were so many.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

That's the same way I feel about Space: Above and Beyond. Right from the beginning, there was more there than in your average space show. And it features a war modeled very much on the modern warfare of the last few decades. There is a definite melding of the futuristic and the all-too-familiar, and they never left the uglier side out. Some of it is rather shocking, and the depiction of the psyche of members of the armed forces during a conflict is engrossing. Nitty gritty, to the max. Dirty and messy, and full of the darker side you'd expect, but never get to see because of political correctness nowadays. Hmm, kind of sounds weird to state it like that, but it's the truth.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Haha, I know it, babe. *loves*

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

*is intrigued*

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

I grew up on TNG (my favourite of the five series, by far), and I also admired DS9 a lot for going in a completely different direction from the others. That series made use of the continuous plot arc style as well, and it was one of the earlier ones to do so.

You didn't like Serenity? :(

I like Stargate pretty well, though I need to be in the mood for it sometimes. I don't really follow SGA, though I have watched a couple eps. But the original: I love shows that can make fun of themselves, definitely. Always intelligent, that one. And I just know that Ben Browder's character in Farscape was templated off the snarky Jack O'Neil (though they made John Crichton much more pessimistically sardonic).

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

I love shows that can poke fun at themselves. Really gets the viewer involved.

[hoshiforever.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I grew up on TNG too...in fact I'm really giddy cause the Royal Shakespeare Company is doing a residency at my University coming up here, which in itself is guh worthy. But their headliner for the season in none other that Patrick Stewart. I'm so excited....

DS9 never held my attention though I have heard that a lot of people like it. ::nod::

I...had issues with Serenity. I feel like they did an okay job considering they had to make it standalone and that they couldn't fesibly wrap up the all of the threads they left behind. However I feel like it was too serious given Firefly and that there was a general genre/style shift that didn't feel right too me. And a couple of the things they left open angered me. Like the MASSIVE, GAPPING things that had suggested that Book wasn't a Shepard, which they didn't even touch...they just killed him instead. I dunno...It just...didn't feel right to me.

As far as Stargate...SG-1's Prime really was seasons 4-7 (though that pains me to say, b/c I hate season 6 in a rather histrionic way). I still really liked 8. 9.....wasn't so good, but 10 thus far has been really good, which is why I'm crushed that it isn't being picked up...while remaining optimistic as to what the producers will do next. But the thing is..when SG-1 started to falter, SGA picked up the slack. It's season 1 (same year as SG-1's 8th) was..solid. 2 was better. And this season has been consistantly better than SG-1.

And wow...I talk (type) a lot...I blame it partically on the the fact that I got about four and a half hours of sleep. Oy.

[hoshiforever.livejournal.com]

...and I suck at HTML today...my apologies...

[aluinnsearlait.livejournal.com]

Maybe we are only talking about Television series, in which case, this is completely invalid, but one thing that hasnt been mentioned is Star Wars -- which, i think we can all agree was a pioneering set of films (the original versions, of course)

And really, in alot of ways, it was the original space western. Firefly is wonderful and totally unique, but at the same time, everytime I watch Serenity land on some dusty planet, I cant help but think of Tatooine; Mos Eisly reminds me so much of the docks on Persephone.

I think one of the most interesting things about the Firefly/Serenity verse is that, even though its Sci/fi, there seem to be no aliens or alien forms of life -- everything is completely, utterly human and mundane; and there is no reason that it could never actually happen.

The dichotomies inherent in the Firefly verse also make it something special. The stylised old west/space frontier is not as jarring as one might think, and really almost makes logical sense, if you believe the addage that the frontier molds man before man can mold the frontier. Add to that the ineresting exchange between old east and west cultures, and you got yourself something truly interesting.

All in all, I see star wars as a huge inspiration for firefly -- down to Han Solo's pants -- but I think Joss Whedon took those elements of Star Wars and made something great from them; I just wish there was more. :(

so. there my strangely long discussion. it probably makes very little sense.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

OMG Patrick Stewart is coming to your college?? afjkhlkfdlskdf I love that man. He is so poised.

Hmm. I guess I would have actually liked Serenity less if they had tried to answer everything, tie it all up in neat little bows and such. Shepherd Book was always a conundrum to me, and I suspected strongly that he'd been some kind of alliance Major Bad Guy Possibly An Assassin or some such whatever. I was definitely sorrowful that I never got to find out, but it didn't bother me too much. I get bugged by stories that try to tie up everything neatly at the end because it doesn't reflect real life.

I didn't have a problem with the tone. I felt it matched the pilot of the series a lot more than the rest of the show, but what always startled and awed me about the show was Whedon's willingness to get at the messy aspects of things. My favourite part of the series was the Reavers because of the utter chill they sent up my spine. He got very gritty with them and I really appreciate that.

I like the latest seasons of SG-1 as well, which is odd for me because I usually have a problem when they switch up characters. Probably a saving grace that it was Browder and Black from Farscape, because I love them. But still, it's been hard to not see Jack there with the team. *is a Jack/Daniel shipper anyway* :( But the Ori have definitely been pleasantly overwhelming; they make me grit my teeth and whisper "fight them!" at the screen. So good to see religious fanatacism addressed in the show.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

It's all good, love.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Haha, yeah, tv series. But that does not negate your statement. If Star Trek is the mother of new age scifi, then Star Wars is definitely the father. Or maybe they are both fathers. :)

even though its Sci/fi, there seem to be no aliens or alien forms of life -- everything is completely, utterly human and mundane

There are definitely two types of space-exploration-sci-fi: the kind like Firefly, which takes the stance that the only higher lifeform in the universe is the human (Stargate did that too, briefly, with another alien spreading humans across the universe to use as slaves), and the kind like Star Wars, which gives us all shapes and sizes of alien (the most recent example of this, I think, would be Farscape, which utilized puppets to great effect). It really makes for some different stuff, doesn't it? I love both stances, as long as they are done well, and originally.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Hmm, just realized they could both be mothers, too. Heh, I have been slash shipping guys only for too long... *facepalms*

[primeling.livejournal.com]

I think SG1 goes under ground-breaking because it combines the space & other exploration w/o being set in the future, which made it easier for a wider audience to relate to it. It is also the longest running SCI-FI besides Doctor Who, and without account all five separate Star Trek series --- which is six if you count the animated series.

Stargate also sports the largest fantastic of intense fans second only to the old fans of Star Trek, who flooded NASA with mail and phone calls in order to get the first atmosphere-flight capable reusable space shuttle named Enterprise.

In addition.. Babylon 5 should really be at the top of that list. Because it is B5. It broke the mold against the Star-Trek ish, and started the revolution of on-going episode -- even SEASON spanning plot-lines that were beyond "Oh look, this space alien again!"

And I hate to shoot down Firefly, but it is basically what Star Trek did when ST first came out. Star Trek was started off as Space-western. I enjoy Firefly as much as the next Sci-Fi fan, but really it wasn't that original of a concept. It was a combination of what the modern-day cult groupies demand: more sex, more action, and more conspiracies. It's an original Star Trek thrown into the modern standards. Gene Rodenberry sold the series to the producers as a Space-western, Sci-Fi intellects still credit as the original, and even Joss Whedon(sp) credit Star Trek as being a space-western.. at least in concerns to the Original series. Maybe the show later could have been ground breaking if it was allowed to flower, but the number of episodes hardly prove, in my opinion, that it is ground breaking. It is just... different. I hardly think it warrants being put in the same cagetory as the giants like Star Trek, Stargate, Space: Above & Beyond, Farscape (which was ground-breaking because if it's crackness).

I still give Firefly kudos for being fun.

PS. Star Wars is not a science-fiction. It is a fantasy with technology. I and most many examiners of the Sci-Fi genre as an intellectual point refuse to acknowledge it as a Sci-Fi. I like Star Wars, but I find it insulting to Sci-Fi to call Star Wars a science fiction.

I just realised I am a Sci-Fi snob. *hangs head and crawls back to her hole*

[primeling.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha. The sad thing is, I understood every single one of the inside jokes. :F

[dacro.livejournal.com]

For me it was Red Dwarf. So simple, so out there, and so damn funny.

(seconds on the Firefly!)

I also remeber Babylon 5 quite a bit, but it wasn't as groud-breaking as some of the others you mentioned.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Omg! Red Dwarf! Hahaha, I saw some of those eps, and I started to read the book, which was a hoot, but then I misplaced it... Hmm, and on top of that, I think it was a borrowed book. O.o

Alas.

[dacro.livejournal.com]

heh. The books are cool, but the TV series is my first love!

*hugs* I think I still have Better Than Life somewhere. Remind me to have a look for it for you. :)

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Wow, I didn't know they had such trouble with keeping their contract. That's so sad. I wish the heads of television stations didn't get so much say over what goes where and when. Many a good show has been scrapped because of it.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Better Than Life?

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

You are right about Star Trek being the first space western. I hadn't even thought of it that way (mostly because I don't really watch a lot of the original series, I guess). Pondering on it now, I would like to submit that Star Trek made the space western, but Whedon definitely defined all the rough edges, accentuated all the necessary details. When I think space western now, Firefly comes to my mind not as the first, but I guess the most... definitive work on the sub-genre. I definitely don't think Star Trek would ever have gone in the directions Firefly went in, and combined with Whedon's sense of gritty realism, that show just blasted through a hundred doors for me personally. I think we may have to agree to disagree about where it goes on the list. ^_^

Haha, that's another one I forgot: Doctor Who. I still remember watching cheesy reruns with my mum, and the good doctor with bushy, bushy hair in a phone booth with billowing smoke and sparks all around. Loud noises. I need to go back and check the old eps out again.

And B5. Didn't watch it, I'm afraid. But it was a mistake to leave it out of the list, definitely. I'm glad you and ravenna pointed it out! That series has been recced to me recently. I should try to get hold of it so I can watch it.

I would like to say, though, that I read your Star Wars comment as disparaging to fantasy. If that is so (if I interpreted you wrong, please tell me!), I think it is a mistake to place fantasy on a lower level than sci-fi, genre-wise. Between the two of them (and the horror genre), there is no better medium for social commentary, and the genius of it is that people step all over all three genres because they see them as flimsy and silly, childish. Unimportant. It is my belief that the common person just does not see the similarities between what is in the fantasy/scifi/horror story and what is taking place in his or her own life. Either because they have no respect for the genres and can't see it, or they won't see it.

And if we really want to get technical, Star Wars can also be neither sci-fi nor fantasy: it's the Hero story with technology and magic. *giggles*

Yeah, I'm a geek. I admit it freely.

[dacro.livejournal.com]

It's a Red Dwarf book.

Hey, did you get my e-mail about Escape? I haven't heard back for anyone, so I was wondering if it was lost to the e-mail void.

[ravenna-c-tan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much every season it was this huge protracted battle as to whether they would be cancelled or stay on the air.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Dude, TELL me I got back to you about this... *smacks forehead* I feel like I have been so lazy lately. I am about to start reading your story!