Oh lordy, time for a rant...

[rurounihime]

Yes, I'm a slow ass. No, I haven't finished Deathly Hallows.

But I just HAD to comment on something that I have read so far.

If there is anyone left who is as slow as me at finishing this book, HERE BE YOUR SPOILER ALERT.

Remus: All hail Harry Potter, godfather to my child! Squeeeee and Tonks-squeeeee!

That makes a lot of sense.

'Cause... why?

*frowns*

I am a citizen of the USA. Maybe godparenthood means something different in the UK. But here, among the other bits about closeness and friendship with the birth parents, it also implies that, should anything happen to the birth parents, the godparent(s) will step in and take the child in, provide a home, an education, safety, support, and general rearing as the birth parents intended to raise their child. And seeing as there is a Wizarding war in full swing, such a situation is a lot more likely for Remus and Tonks than it would be during times of peace.

Is there not a distinct problem with this?

I feel like I am being forced to acknowledge Harry's maturity yet again. Hey, I think he's matured. You've sold me, JK, I buy it, I believe it, I revel in it because he is finally coming into his own. I think he is a capable, powerful, iconic leader with the intelligence and ability to save the wizarding world.

Do I think Harry can raise a war-orphaned child? No, I do not. Harry is a boy, regardless of how mature he is proving to be, and he not only has no actual home to speak of, but no means of providing for said child should the need arise, which it stands a fair chance of doing in the current life and times of British wizardom. Rowling forbid Remus or Tonks should die. I don't want that, you don't want that (I wager), and none of those other people in the book want that. Except Voldemort (whoops, broke my wards) and Bellatrix.

Do I think that Harry would end up being the sole provider for the child? No. Andromeda is there, as are the Weasleys, Kingsley Shacklebolt and friends, and of course, Ron, Hermione, Luna, Neville and Ginny, should things REALLY come right down to the bare essentials. I have no doubt Harry would have plenty of help. But come on. A godfather? Let's all celebrate the most transparent display of "all hail Harry, the new and improved GROWN-UP Boy Who Lived, who is now following in his own godfather's footsteps, oh, weep-with-joy!" that the series has offered thus far.

I feel blatantly manipulated. And anyone who knows me knows that I loathe blatant author manipulation more than almost anything else when I read.

I also feel like common sense has picked up and gone on holiday. And the absence of common sense takes a very close second.

Sirius may not have been the most attentive and appropriate godfather, but he definitely had the means to feed and clothe Harry (barring the stint in Azkaban, which I don't think any of us could control), and he MOST CERTAINLY had the means when James and Lily first named him godfather. Harry has no way of giving this child a life. He barely has the wherewithal to give himself any sort of life.

The smart thing to do would have been to appoint the Weasleys as godparents. Yes, it's war, and yes, our favourite redheads are in dire straits, not working and all. But they are far more equipped than the current godfather is, on a mental level at the very least. Instead, we have another thing placed on the shoulders of a kid-- A KID-- who already has enough on his plate. It feels very foolish to me, an empty gesture meant to show appreciation when "I'm sorry I went all WONKY in the BASEMENT of your HOUSE" just won't cover it. Like, oh, Harry was right and I was wrong, let me give him my child's well-being to make amends.

What really bugs me is that everyone else was totally thrilled about it. I would have expected Hermione and Bill, at the very least, to frown worriedly and say, "Thanks for the show of faith, but I think maybe it would be better for everyone if..."

Next thing you know, Tonks will be appointing Ginny godmother extraordinaire because as everyone knows, she and Harry are a match made in the stars. I mean, come on, how can any of us argue with that? Everyone in the books has had SIXTEEN WHOLE YEARS to figure it out. That's, like, forever. That's, like, duh. *pukes*

I tell you. First Tonks goes bonkers. Now Remus is starting with the Stoopid. It's a sign: there is conspiracy afoot! Their child is the harbinger of dooooooom! Watch out, Voldemort!

*rolls whole head because eyes are just not enough*

ETA: Well, it seems my "godparents as legal guardians" issue is not a widely practiced thing among my f-list. *laughs* Alas! So this observation and concern comes from my own personal background. Still, I hold to a lot of what I said about Harry being emotionally unprepared for such a role. And I still feel manipulated. *sigh*

Comments

[copperbeech.livejournal.com]

=)

Well, but you are forgetting the epi-Epilogue, in which Harry finally does marry Draco, who remains loaded and can care for Harry and his ill-literarily gained progeny. No seriously.

Teddy Ruxpin. I read that somewhere and about freaking ROLLED.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

HA!

*looks forward to all the fic*

My friend had a Teddy Ruxpin bear when she was younger...

[cyn-ful.livejournal.com]

I have to agree totally. The way that Harry has always treated Lupin, only going to him when it was the last possible source. Why would Lupin feel that close to Harry? Granted that whole Lupin/Tonks thing still gets to me.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

My personal opinion is that he's having a difficult time separating Harry from James and Sirius. The funny thing is, it was always Sirius who had difficulty with that, while Lupin was the voice of acceptance for what is versus what was, as well as very clear who Harry was. In a lot of ways, I feel Lupin's character has been quite altered in this last book. Makes me sad. He's one of my favorites. It would be neat if JK really DID go that route and show his confusion with friend-versus-friend's-son, but I don't hold out much hope as I near the end of the book. I think she's trying to tie up loose ends that don't necessarily need to be tied up.

[shikishi.livejournal.com]

I think I viewed it differently, mainly because of my job. The whole god parent hoopla is only that unless all the legalities and paperwork and wills are also done. Teddy is going to Andromeda should anything happen, because of kinship laws. which I am not sure the UK has.

So basically I saw it as Lupin honoring the son and remaining survivor of his two best mates.

[le-negronomicon.livejournal.com]

iawtc

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I guess the whole effort just seems so pointless to me. Sure, it's a feel-good moment. But it makes no sense. Lupin, of all people, should be able to appreciate just how precious what's left of Harry's childhood is to him. He has so little of it as it is. He just doesn't even come to mind as a godparent candidate for me at all.

I hold that Lupin is pulling a Sirius and mixing up his friends with his friends' children. I think he's still in mourning, and he's trying to compensate. Alas, I think it could have been delivered more effectively, if that is the case.

[maybeido.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with you on that - it's why I found Harry being named godfather as odd, as from what I know it's usually people who are already IN the family who are named!

Though, I don't suppose either of them have much family left, but I'm sure, legally speaking, the Weasleys have a better case than non-relation-Harry :/

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

I agree. I had similar thoughts. I also agree, and more virulently, on hating the blatant manipulation. And if you read the way I do... well... I think I won't say anything else. :P

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Gaw, yes. I don't mind being manipulated. As a writer, I take part in plenty of manipulation myself. It's unavoidable; it's the base rock of story-telling anyway. But I get VERY ticked off when I can plainly see a writer trying to force my emotions into a certain direction. They have to earn it, and that takes skill and patience. You don't just automatically get to push people's brains around. That's why it's so sad that we have so many poor writers who are published.

[grey-hunter.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that Harry is much more likely to be killed in the war than anyone else. He is the one who has to go up against Voldie, right? I can understand Remus' reasoning for naming Harry the godfather, namely that he is most lilely one of his only friends, that Harry's father was his best friend, that Harry was who told him off when he wanted to leave his family because he was a werewolf (should have thought of that sooner) so he might feel gratitude for that. But what about Tonks? I bet she wanted Kingsley or McGonagall.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Excellent point. Harry has enough to deal with on his own, not the least of which being his own survival. It's a nice, romantic thought. But impractical.

Harry did play a major part in getting Remus to return, that's for sure. And I laud Harry's maturity in that instance. But he's still a kid. Let him BE a kid, for as long as he has left. Everyone else is already stealing his childhood from him by the truckload.

McGonagall would have been a good, solid choice, yes. Alas, everyone on this list is also on Voldemort's hit-list most of the time... So there's only so many arguments I can make in favor of safety for the kid. I just don't see Harry as a good candidate, not through any failing of him own, but because he is still so young. He's not James.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Erg, HIS own. Not "him own."

Dang. Tired...

[le-negronomicon.livejournal.com]

i still say Remus did it because he was in love with Sirius... and this is his round-about way of cementing that love.

but seriously, i think the thinking is something along the lines of: "he's closest thing to family Remus has, outside of that which he married"... and he knows Harry's still rich beyond measure, certainly richer than Sirius was...

and, if Sirius was able -- in all his fugitiveness -- to not only KEEP his money, but ACCESS his money, and then PASS ON his assets via a will (and not a dime to Remus?? maybe i take back the Remus/Sirius, after all)... well, Remus knows that no matter what, Harry will always have the Weasleys to help -- should they survive -- and not to forget Hermione -- should she survive.

people make bad decisions all the time

it's a rarity -- really, and truly a rarity -- that a godparent actually gets custody of a child just by being named 'godparent'.

it doesn't hold up in court

it has little weight

it takes a massive wipe-out of mega (and suspicious) proportions to actually have a child be put in the custody of a godparent... at least, in the US. it's a symbolic gesture, at best.

and, really... that's all this is. this is remus' life -- full-circle. who else would his child go to?

now, that's the let's-explain-it-as-tho-these-were-real-people bit.

the let's-explain-it-as-a-writer-using-a-plot-device explanation is that Rowling wanted the 'awwww' effect of making that sort of full-circle connection. and that's really what she's trying to do: closing the circle.

so, yes, she's manipulating you -- it's hard to write without doing that. but i don't think it's for the same reason that you picked up. it's not to show that harry is suddenly responsible, it's to make you teary-eyed and/or giddy in that sort of "the next generation, tied to the first" sort of way.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Oh, I am absolutely a Sirius/Remus shipper. In fact, I think part of Remus' emotional issues in DH are due to the fact that he hasn't grieved yet. He is the last of his friends. They're all gone. He's it. And I think he's having trouble letting go, which is completely understandable.

Harry is indeed rich. And one day, he'd be a wonderful godfather. But at this point, I feel he's not mature enough for the responsibility that comes with being a godparent, and I am happy to put aside the possible legal rammifications for this: There's an emotional, mental duty that comes with being a godparent as well. There is an element of helping to raise the child even with the birth parents still around. I think it is unfair of Remus and Tonks to put Harry in this position right now. I also think you are right: Remus is reaching out to the only "family" he has left, and that is Harry. But I am getting a real sense of deja vu, in that Remus is seeing James where Harry is standing, just as Sirius did. Harry is not James, and I feel Remus is having trouble distinguishing. He never did before, at least not obviously, which is another reason I'm shying away from this development...

it doesn't hold up in court

I suppose I come from a unique position, then, of having my selected godparents be the people who WERE legally allowed to take me if something had happened. So I see the role in a different light, I suppose. It just always held a certain level of tactile responsibility for me. A big deal.

I don't mind a little manipulation. Heh, I write as well. It's part and parcel. The foundation of story-telling has always been the ability to grip your listener, to make them feel the story and be the characters. Manipulation at its finest. What I detest is the obvious way it is often done. No subtlety, no earning that emotional tumble. Many writers just expect to get it, as if they are entitled just because they write.

I'm glad you didn't feel manipulated when you read DH; it always takes the fun out of things, doesn't it? But I'm afraid I have felt openly manipulated by JK Rowling before, namely in HBP, and I haven't grown to like it in the interim. I feel she is trying to tie up loose ends that don't necessarily need to be tied up, and that frustrates me because I admire the series so much. I guess I don't feel that the plot needs to come full circle so obviously. It's too "in your face" for me. I could see Remus offering... well, an IOU, to be blunt: "when you are older, Harry, I would like you to consider being Teddy's godfather." I think that would have had the same effect.

[(Anonymous)]

It's an honor and a symbolic gesture, not a binding parental guardian role. Lots of quite young people become godparents (especially when their older siblings have children). Sirius only saw it that way because he was the only one left for Harry besides Petunia. Lupin cares about Harry (and values him through the James connection), and Harry's the one who knocked some sense into him so he actually stayed with his family. I'm sure he was grateful in retrospect.

It wasn't really all that manipulative. Harry was the natural choice. Anyone else would have been flatout weird.

Clio

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

I guess my interpretation of the godparent role is somewhat different from that of a lot of people who are reading this. I think that's going to color my feelings on the issue no matter what.

I think Remus is sort of off his rocker a bit in this book in general. It just felt... a little bit convenient to me. Like a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants decision because he was in a good mood. I wonder who Tonks would have chosen as godparents...

It wasn't really all that manipulative. Harry was the natural choice. Anyone else would have been flatout weird.

I'm glad you didn't feel manipulated. Must have made reading it nicer. I personally felt manipulated. As if I were shoved into the joyousness of everything without my consent. I'm having trouble with the final two books in general because it feels like Rowling has tried to tie up every loose end she can find, and that's really not necessary, even if the books are ending. I don't personally feel that Harry is a good candidate for godparent at this point in his life. He's got a ton of stuff to think about right now as it is. It feels way too cleanly dealt with to me. I felt that was unnecessary.

Thank you for commenting!

[snottygrrl.livejournal.com]

well, traditionally, the godparent was to help with the spiritual growth of the child. according to wikipedia, the modern meaning is an individual chosen by the parents to take a vested interest in raising a more complete human being. However, godparent is not a legal position, and should the parents seriously intend the godparents to act as foster parents in case of their death, this must be legally specified through the usual means (such as a will).

my brother had godparents, i didn't. his godparents never did anything but send him bday cards (we saw them when we ere little and my mum still sees them at times but i haven't for yrs and neither has my bro).

so when i read that i felt like remus considered harry the only 'family' he has left and thus felt like harry should be a part of his son's life in a meaningful way. though it did have a somewhat creepy i-can't-make-any-of-my-buddies-gparents-cause-they're-all-dead-(or-Ev!L)-so-you'll-do kind of a feel to it as well.

though truth be told i found the entire tonks/remus(harry) thread v. v. odd. and came to figure out that canon!remus is actually a bit of a twat.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

It's been brought to my attention that my legal relationship with my godparents is somewhat unique among my f-list. ^__^ My godparents happen to be the ones I would have legally gone with if something had happened. I should have thought of my sister's godmother, who would gladly take her, but is not the person recognized to do so legally.

And I agree with you about Remus and Tonks and Harry. Very forced. Almost thrown in as an afterthought, in my opinion. It didn't make a lot of sense to me from the beginning. And I think it would have, if she'd been able to give it more development and attention. Makes me wonder exactly how much cutting power her editors and publishers had...

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

heh, that totally didn't register with me, but then i don't think being godparents has any meaning aside from a sentimental one, so i just saw it as a gesture, but not remus seriously considering harry would raise his child should something happen to it.

FINISH THAT BOOK, WOMAN!!!! *glares*

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

I'm beginning to see that I'm in the minority as far as my interpretation of godparenting roles goes. *laughs* Oh well. It still struck a weird chord with me. If not for that, I probably would have rolled my eyes anyway at the sap potential. It had the feel of "sunlight and daisies" to me.

Heh, and I don't think Remus is considering all that much of anything in this book. *giggles* Alas! Poor Remus. He's too confuddled about everything...

[prettyhairs.livejournal.com]

I had the same doubts about the legal guardian thing but JK...

Well read on;)

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Reading! *salutes*

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Lessee... I am about to start chapter 28. Heh, RL leapt up and bit me last weekend, and since then, my reading has gone so slowly!

[fireelemental79.livejournal.com]

Wow, you rant about the weirdest shit. WHERE ARE ME EFFIN BANNERS OF ZOMBIE DOOOOOOOM?????

If you were wondering where I've been the last few days I've been forcibly removed to the land of hug rapists. Not that I'm complaining much anymore. Eventually the hug rapists grow on you and then it becomes consentual. I can't spell right now.

But I did manage to catch up on sleep this morning.

Hope to talk to you later tonight. And hopefully I can start going to bed earlier, getting up earlier and get my life back on track. Or something. ~smoochiesnoochiehugrapesyou~

ps I thought you might get a kick out of this. One of the hug rapists said that he wasn't "hugging" me. We were glomping. ;-)

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry! They are coming! I really need to get off my ass and get those posted before everyone forgets I even DID a zombie quiz!

And "glomping"! Oh, he so gets an honorary fandom sticker.

[ravenpan.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've been away, but I did read your rant :) (needed distraction!)

My kids have two seperate sets of godparents. Our daughter has my husband's sister, and best friend. My son has a set of really close friends of mine (married to each other). We... unfortunately, have yet to make a will naming someone guardian of the kids - because we don't know many people who either have the means, or the background. Some have both, but we wouldn't want to impose asking. While we both believe that, should anything happen to us (and this was explained to the two godmothers and two godfathers) they are well able to step in and make sure that (whoever ends up with the kids) raises them the way WE would have wanted them raised - it's not legally binding without a will.

...and now I'm getting all morose again. I just wanted to say I look at it the same way you do - which is probably why it took my husband and I AGES to agree on any godparents, not because we don't trust the lot of them, but because we still don't know who we'd like to raise the kids.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, it's good to know that I am not the only one in this situation!

And maybe I misspoke about the "raising as the parents wanted them raised" bit. I meant to say, "in a manner acceptable to the birthparents." But it really is a difficult idea, isn't it? Suddenly nothing is good enough, and the questions are everywhere. *nods*

[chibirat.livejournal.com]

First off, i can't believe you haven't finished this thing...

Second off, "he not only has no actual home to speak of, but no means of providing for said child should the need arise," you seem to have forggoten that Harry has a house that Sirius left him and that his parents left him quite a fortune in Gringotts. He could physically care for a child. I'll not argue with the emotional care, nescicarilaly, cause i'm too tired to come up with a good one right now... :) Plus my spelling sucks, lol.

[rurounihime.livejournal.com]

you seem to have forggoten that Harry has a house that Sirius left him and that his parents left him quite a fortune in Gringotts. He could physically care for a child.

Except that at the time of godfatherly appointment, Grimmauld had been completely compromised and Harry had no access to Gringotts as himself, as he was Wizardom's Most Wanted. If he'd tried to access his vaults, they would have jumped all over him.

I finally finished it. I was trying to draw it out. I'm still moping that this is the last one... ^__~